Whisper in the Shadows
Welcome to ‘Whispers in the Shadows’, your gateway into the nerve-wracking work of undercover policing. The true stories of a real-life undercover cop. I’m Michael Bates, an ex-undercover police officer, and this was my reality for over two years. If your fascinated by the truth that lies beneath crime shows, if you hunger for the real-life stories that leap beyond the boundaries of fiction, ‘Whispers in the Shadows’ is here to satisfy your curiosity. From infiltrating drug syndicates to living a double life, every episode uncovers a thrilling true story that pitted me against the face of danger. Don’t miss out on the chance to step into my shoes and experience what it takes to walk the thin line between law and crime. Subscribe to ‘Whispers in the Shadows’ and join me, as we delve into the gritty world of undercover policing.
Whisper in the Shadows
Behind the Thin Blue Line, a Conversation - Episode 6 with Ben Schultz - Part 1
What does it take to transition from the adventurous life of a rock lobster diver to the demanding world of law enforcement in remote Australia? Join me, Jason Somerville, on today's episode of Behind the Thin Blue Line as I sit down with Ben Schultz, co-host of the Two Ordinary Cops podcast. Ben shares the intriguing story of how family ties and a recommendation from his uncle led him to join the Northern Territory Police in 2007, swapping diving gear for a badge. From meeting his podcast partner Damien Barb during training to forging a career grounded in camaraderie and mutual support, Ben's journey is a testament to the power of connections in policing.
Ever wondered about the unique challenges faced by officers policing in remote Aboriginal communities? Ben recounts his early days in the force, navigating the non-stop workload and learning from seasoned officers. We explore his experiences in places like Lajamanu and Bamaga, where cultural dynamics and the necessity of building respectful relationships with First Nations communities are paramount. His vivid anecdotes paint a picture of the intense and rewarding nature of serving in such isolated environments, where the practical realities include carrying firearms and dealing with disorganized records.
The complexities of a police career don't stop there. Ben opens up about his rapid progression from constable to acting sergeant, his involvement in specialized units including the Family and Domestic Violence Unit, and significant investigations that marked his early career. We also touch on the personal side of policing—the impact of mandatory relocation policies, the shift in his wife's career to policing, and the emotional weight of her battle with cancer. This heartfelt conversation offers a raw and honest look at the multifaceted life of a police officer, making it a must-listen for anyone interested in the human stories behind the badge.
Two Ordinary Cops Podcast can be found here - https://twoordinarycops.com/
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Welcome to Behind the Thin Blue Line, a Whisper in the Shadows podcast.
Speaker 1:In each city, in every neighbourhood, on every street they stand tall, those in blue guardians of our community, our protectors. But who are they really? Behind the Thin Blue Line is the podcast that takes you behind the badge, beyond the headlines, and into the hearts of those who serve and protect. We're here to break down barriers and to tear down the walls of misunderstanding. We're here to listen to their stories, their triumphs, their fears. Ever wonder what it's like serving undercover, or what's the real-life impact of policing, or how they cope with trauma? Listen as we step into the shoes of those who walk the thin blue line. You have heard my true stories of what it's really like to be an undercover cop. I want to give a voice to all those living amongst us, unseen and unnoticed, who have put their life on the line being a police officer, hopefully to give you, the listener, a glimpse into something you will likely never get to experience Uncover the complex world of law enforcement and the raw human experiences behind the badge. Join me, jason Somerville, your host and a former police officer myself, as we navigate through these stories on Behind the Thin Blue Line. Let's go and meet our next guest.
Speaker 1:Welcome back to Behind the Thin Blue Line a Whisper in the Shadows podcast, where I explore the human side of policing and law enforcement. I hope you're enjoying our conversations with former and current police officers as I delve into the complexity of policing and how it affects the human side of police. As a person, I'm Jason Somerville and I was a Queensland police officer for nearly 14 years, as well as working undercover for over two of them. Hopefully you've been listening to my stories of my time undercover through my alter ego, michael Bates. Well, I've decided it's time we heard from other police and let them tell their stories. Today I'm chatting with Ben Schultz, who is one half of the fantastic podcast Two Ordinary Cops. Good afternoon, ben. How are you today? Ordinary or very ordinary?
Speaker 2:Well, mate, we always like to say we're very ordinary and that's the way we wanted to put it forward. We're nothing special, but we can talk some. So yeah, mate, but otherwise I'm going well.
Speaker 1:That's good Look. Thanks for agreeing to. Thank you for agreeing to join the podcast and for agreeing to have a chat about your policing experience, and I also have to say thank you for having me on your podcast as a guest last week. It was a thoroughly enjoyable experience and, for anyone who wants to catch that, the Two Ordinary C cops podcast details will be below um and there will be a link to that particular podcast episode as well. So let's start with give us a brief overview of what you're currently doing and then just actually let's let's go back, give me a brief overview of your time in the police, where it was that sort of thing, and then talk about what you're doing now.
Speaker 2:All right, mate. Well, mate, I started off in the police in 2007. Basically, I had been a crayfish. That means you're a young'un. Yeah, yeah, mate, exactly Well, I was just turning 30 at the time, so anybody can actually figure out my age. Then, um, mate, I I joined, I'd finished cray fishing, I was a rock lobster diver up in torres straits and basically I basically finished up in that job and then I decided that I need to go to do something different.
Speaker 2:It got to that stage of my life where I either invest a lot more money or pull out and go and do something different. And anyway, I was kind of wondering what I was going to do and my dad said to me because my, basically, my brother, my dad's brother, it was a cop in Queensland from 74 till about 2017, I think, and also my mum's brother was also a police officer and he started back in 1956, I believe. No, no, it might have been 1960s. Uh, yeah, and he was a cop back then. So, and anyway, so I was running our family, obviously. So you had no choice. Well, basically, yeah, and I've always wanted to be a cop, I've always idolized my uncle and all that sort of things. I, uh, my dad said well, why don't you join the police? I thought, well, geez, that's a good idea.
Speaker 2:And how I got to the Northern Territory because I'm Queensland born and bred was my uncle, who was in the police at that time. He said to me he said I think back then there was some requirements in the Queensland police. You needed a degree or something like that. I'm not entirely sure, but he said there was basically some requirements. And he said my advice is go to the Northern Territory. He said the Northern Territory police will fast track you into policing like you won't believe. And he said we will. Like the Queensland police will accept you in three years if you ever want to come back.
Speaker 2:He said they love other Northern Territory police because they reckon that doing one year up there is like doing three years in any other jurisdiction. And I can tell you well, look, I can't experience other police forces, but I can tell you what the Northern Territory you're thrown into the deep end. Very, very quickly on or early on I should say yeah, and then so I started in the college and that's where I met the other half of the Very Ordinary Cops Damo or Damien Barb and we joined in the same recruit squad and then we. So we did our training there. We got a reputation of liking the amber liquid and going up to the police club and then we both got stationed in Catherine.
Speaker 1:That would have been your recipe for disaster. Were they warned before you turned up? Well, not really.
Speaker 2:It was just one of those things and one of the funny stories, like Damo and I tell early on, was when we first our first day in the college and we're sitting there and the sergeant comes in. They said yeah, they're showing us around the college and all the bits and pieces. And they said in the Peter McCauley center there is a police club. They said, but we advise you not to go there, it's not a good look for recruits. Anyway, the first Friday that came around, damo and I we thought, well, let's go up and have a look at this police club. And that was a great night. We actually met some quite high ranking officers.
Speaker 2:I'll mention Mr Bob Rennie. He's been on our show and he was actually behind the bar serving and he was a superintendent of traffic at the time. So and he really he was, he was definitely a big, he was like a father figure and you know, just taught us about what the police club was actually about not drinking and getting blind drunk and all that sort of thing, but more of a camaraderie thing. And you come in there and you get to talk to people and pass information and talk about some of the some of the crap that you'll deal with in the police. So that was. That was a big part.
Speaker 1:How far away was the police club from the academy it?
Speaker 2:was in the same. So we had like the Peter McCauley Center or the training colleges. It's quite a massive area. It's got like a pool and training classrooms and all that sort of thing. And the Peter McCauley Center was originally the HQ of the police in the northern territory and later on it was joined in with the police college, if you know what I mean. So it was from our where we were staying in the barracks. It was probably 200, 300 meter walk yeah, so arrest people.
Speaker 1:it's interesting because when I went through the academy, uh, we didn't have a police club at the academy, but there was a golf club next door and every couple of months there'd be a new hole in the fence to get through to go to the police club, and it got to the point where they ended up building a police club on the academy grounds just near the rec hall. So people could near the food hall rather, so people could go there and the academy could make money. So people could near the food hall rather, so people could go there and the Academy could make money out of the fact that there were a few drinkers amongst the recruits as they came through. So you went to Catherine, that was your first post.
Speaker 2:Yeah, probably it was October, I think, or September sorry, 2007 when we got stationed down there. Look, catherine is a very, very busy station and I know there are some very busy stations around, but you're flying by the seat of your pants, you know we were doing. What made it busy? Well, if you look at it, probably alcohol is a big problem. In the Northern Territory alone, alcohol is a massive problem. You know, you'll probably get a lot of people drinking. There's a lot of domestics, uh oh, the aggravated assaults murders you, you, basically, I think katherine's about 10 000 people and I think at one stage we had about 115 cops.
Speaker 2:So and we were flat out, and we were flat out running, working 24 hours a day. Sometimes you go into jobs at, you know, three or four in the morning that were three or four hours old, because you just got job after job after job after job. So it was, it was a big learning curve. I was lucky. I had a good senior officer. He was 10 years in the job and he took me for the first three months on the road.
Speaker 2:I can tell you what, when I look back at my career, I was so lucky to have that, just that guidance, you know and teach me how to do stuff. But yeah, catherine, I mean to put it in perspective for people. If you look at my career, I went out bush, I think three months. So I was in Catherine for three months and then got sent out to Largemarnu for two weeks where, technically speaking, I was the OIC of the station, which is officer in charge, because the other guy was a two-man station. The other guy went on holidays to sergeant, so I was left there by myself in Largemarnu, in the middle of the Tanami Desert. I literally slept with my Glock under my pillow.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I literally slept with my Glock under my pillow. Yeah, I can relate to that being sent to Bamaga just after or it would have been. No, it was just after my 12 months for up on wind. I got sent to Bamaga and the sergeant who was affectionately known as Papa Smurf, this big red beard, he sort of got a little bit stressy and it was like okay, here I am at this community right at the top of queensland, going what's going on? I was just going to say so. 115 coppers, yep, you, you, you. You go there for your training. You're sent to a small station. Now, for those of, for those people listening who might not know where that station is, my assumption is that it's going to be a First Nations community. Would that be Rajamouna?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yep, so that's where I went. So, catherine, you need to relieve a massive area, so a massive a lot of stations, so Largemarnoo was one. If you look at Largemarnoo, look, you can almost go if you go to the dead centre of Australia. That's where Largemarnoo is, so everybody could relate. If anybody's looked at the map to where Yuinamoo is, which is, of course, where Ounjayi Walker was shot in 2019, I think, by the Northern Territory Police, that was all over the news and still is today. So if you look at Yuendumu, that's the sister or brother community of Lajamanu they're the same people. They're Walpurgis. So they're the Walpurgis, aboriginal people in there. So, yeah, predominantly out there, you're dealing with Aboriginal people who are Wobbri tribe and it's literally in the Tanami Desert.
Speaker 1:Okay, having worked at Bedouri and Birdsville and places like that as well, got a fair understanding of how isolating that can be First impressions when you got there.
Speaker 2:Well, look, I'd lived in Torres Strait, you know, for 10 years, because that's where I was diving for rock lobster and I'd seen bamago once or twice too, and the top end, you know. So look, definitely surprising. It's a whole new world out there. One of the thing I found, like the walkreys are very, very big people. Um, you know, they're the warrior tribe of the aboriginals, but what I found to me, that they, they're very genuine. So I think damo, in one of our podcasts, talks about how the first time he went to 300 people fighting and these people have star pickets, you know, axes and all that, and basically danny shroyas sergeant just tells him like they rock up and there's people fighting trying to kill each other. There's two of them and there's 300 of them. Anyway, danny goes well, you just go down that side, you take that side, I'll take this side, and he said just get the weapons off them. And damo thought it was the biggest ditch up ever. But the fact is, those people they're fighting amongst themselves. They're, you know, they're actually. They don't. They don't have any grievance against the police. If the police come in there and start crying them around and all that, then they will attack you. But to go up and actually talk to them and go? No, you can't have that. You know it was a respect thing and if you built that in those communities, you policed, you know, far more efficiently and had less trouble. So, yeah, did you carry a gun when you were there the only times you did? Yeah, so we always had a gun on our hip, except, like, probably, when In large amount of yes, not because I thought it was any further, any more dangerous. I suppose the only time I didn't and it was policy that we did wear it so they can try and get me now, which they can't because I'm out of the police was when I was, when I was up at croaker island, which is, uh, mingelang community. That was one that was opened up under the intervention, um of you know, 2007.
Speaker 2:I went out there. So, to put in perspective, I was two years, just two years, uh, or two and a half years in the job and I went out there for six months as a sergeant, um, and running that station for six months. So what was your actual rank? I was basically acting sergeant or remote sergeant they called it back then. So I was actually sitting at that. You were still a constable. Yep, okay, yep, yep. So I hadn't reached 21st class yet. So I was, I was off probation and and basically I got that job.
Speaker 2:I was sitting at the police club in Catherine and the OIC. Uh, george Wockerson came over and said do you like the sun, surf and and and and ocean? And I said, well, yeah, and he goes. Do you want to go to Croke Island for six months? And sergeant out there? And I thought, well, I said, oh, I have to ask my wife. But, um, yeah, it sounds like a good deal.
Speaker 2:So my, of course, my wages went up significantly and I got flown out to a remote station. Yeah, and I did your wife go. No, look, yeah, oh, look, I will tell this story because I can probably tell it now. Okay, because she's not even in the job she. She joined the police later on as well. But so what I did? I was very being out there, you got very good friends with police air wing because under the intervention I think we had one plane before the intervention, after that we had four, so they were flying cops in and out of stations, like the afp cops are helping out, and all that sort of stuff, and I got very good friends with murray cufferson who was who was the basically ran ran Police Air Wing and so if they were flying out my way and my wife had some, you know, a couple of weeks off, I'd get her picked up on Police Air Wing and she'd go out there and see me for a couple of days.
Speaker 1:And then I'd get a fly off. I can see where that was going. A mile away there was, I think.
Speaker 2:So how long was she in the police? He joined in 2000. No, sorry, go on. So, yeah, three years from me. Yeah, I know, I was just going to say damo, damo, actually, um called it at the time. He said he used to call it schultz airlines because if you wanted, if you wanted to get treatment on, please air when you call schultz.
Speaker 1:So did your wife become a police officer because of you, or?
Speaker 2:do you meet as a teacher originally. So we went up there together and she was teaching um, yeah, I won't really speak for her, but she, she kind of got a bit, I suppose, not depressed, but um, a bit it didn't really like the education department, the way it was run and all that. She didn't feel like they were supporting people further down, um, and she was working long hours and she decided she was going to do a career change and she asked me and she said would you mind if I joined the police? I said no, not at all, like you know. Yeah, join up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so she did in 2010 and, um, yeah, she was a very, very good officer I was going to say, most coppers would say what were you having second thoughts and you were wanting to get a quick divorce or something?
Speaker 2:Well, it did eventuate that way in the end.
Speaker 1:We might come back to that. So you've done a couple of remote communities. What happens next?
Speaker 2:Well, mate, so I did that and then so I'd went, when I went to croker island. When I came back, I got the option to go in the family and domestic violence unit. So I mean, you're looking, this is three years from when I started the college then and, uh, and I got to be a plainclothes constable working in a detective's office, um, which was, which was, yeah, exactly. I know you're just sitting there and go, wow, how could you get that opportunity so early? But that's the way the territory ran it was. You know it got opportunities and I loved that was a first step into working, you know, in those investigative roles, and I really enjoyed it. So I did that for probably about six to eight months, really enjoyed it.
Speaker 2:So I did that for probably about six to eight months and then during that time my wife at the time was also joining the police, so she was up in Darwin doing the training and when she came out I actually asked to be put back on the road so I could actually spend more time with her, and they actually put us on the same shift. We never worked in the same car, but we're actually on the same shift, which was good. Yeah, like I enjoyed that and because of my experience at the time, they then asked me to be a training officer because they were getting those problems at that stage in the force that they were just recruiting so many people and they didn't have good senior partners to spread across. So basically I was fairly experienced and I'd run stations, I'd done the commander's tack team. I worked into in for a bit.
Speaker 2:Um, I've been out in bush stations and I was also worked as a plainclothes connie in more serious roles and during that first stint that I did, we um we actually took care of a murder investigation. Um, you know, we we were basically running around, uh, doing a murder investigation, and so it really opened your eyes to how so how many years experience did?
Speaker 2:Oh sorry, yeah, sorry, how many years experience when I went in there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, when you went back on the road, how many years had spent.
Speaker 2:So that was probably more like October in 2010. So three years since I've been on the road, so three and a half years all up since I joined the college and and you'd had remote experience acting sergeant officer. Oic work playing clothes yeah, worked in the commander's back team. I did that for six months looking after unlawful entries and juvenile crime yeah, it's like the opportunity.
Speaker 1:You I was gonna say you probably you probably get a gig now, uh, in Townsville or in Brisbane running the government's crime justice team, juvenile justice programs, wouldn't you? Because God knows, they need someone to do it. Just as a bit of a buy here, not a segue, more a thing of that, if anyone's watching. And for you also, ben, sometimes having some internet issues and I might talk over the top of or something like that, there's just internet, because that's just the way it is living in the country. Yes, so, um, all right, so you, you're working on the road. What was that? Was that at katherine?
Speaker 2:yes. So when I went back on back onto the road working with my ex-wife now but yeah, that was in katherine, that was just general duties and I so one of her actually squaddies uh, he was an absolutely brilliant guy and he was having trouble. He had some really bad senior partners uh leading into it and and he was really stressed out and almost ready to leave the job and they'd only been in for a couple of months. Uh, he was really stressed out and so the shift sergeant came to me and he said he said look, he said, can I give you this guy? He's really stressed out, but he's really brilliant. He's really like, he's good at what he does. He's just had some really terrible senior officers trying to guide him through the police and I had him. I looked after him for about three months and I reckon within about two weeks he was loving the job.
Speaker 2:It was just the fact that, as me as a senior partner, all I said. I said, all right, you've got a shitload of jobs, you've got a lot of investigations, and I said what I'm going to do is I will take all the jobs from here on in until you get all yours cleared up. So every time we go on shift, every job comes to me. But also back then we also worked in the watch house. So I also asked the sergeant if we could have two watch house shifts every roster, so that way once a week basically. And and he said yep, not a problem, because I said the watch house is great. You get your quiet times where we can really go through your paperwork and we can tell you how to get through it and do the jobs properly so they'll get finalized and do investigations properly and get them up to date and get successful prosecutions if it went down that path. So I really enjoyed doing that.
Speaker 2:It's a lot of work being a senior partner and guiding teaching police. I never realized how much it actually took out of my policing until, like, I did that for about a year and I'd done four police in that time. So three months of stint and yeah, and it was funny because then they said, oh, we'll just match you up. These are, you know, this is a lady that's come down from darwin. She'd been policing up there and darwin doesn't have the experience that katherine has. So they said can you just introduce you into katherine? And because you have to, like you know, up there they had a coroner's conning down in katherine. You did the paperwork yourself, like that sort of stuff.
Speaker 2:So and she I'll actually say this oh okay, she had four dead bodies on the first four shifts on the road in catherine no, no one would want to work with it on that so, um, yeah, so, but so it was probably handy because I I showed her how, what the paperwork you had to fill out and, um, yeah, doing doing a coronial file and all that sort of thing which we were. I mean, obviously we had experience, we had to do them all the time ourselves. Like I think there was a policy in the Northern Territory Police that anybody on probation couldn't actually be in charge of a coronial file, but I think I did two or three while I was on probation.
Speaker 1:It's just, yeah, yeah it's. It's just, yeah, it's absolutely nuts like that. Yeah, well, if, if you were the junior connie and there was a dead body, you got it. It was like you know, yeah, welcome, welcome, welcome to the same type type deal. I think I think the hardest one, not the hardest one. I remember the first one. Uh, the guy was in a caravan in summer in the middle of Cairns for seven days. So that's one thing you never forget.
Speaker 1:I was in Baduri and Baduri is about 200 kilometers, 250 kilometers north of Birdsville in the straight line and about four or 500 kilometers south of Mount Isa in a straight line. So it's in the middle of absolutely nowhere. We were flooded in so you couldn't get in and out of town. Yeah, I know that feeling. Plane lands, yeah, yeah, plane lands, old mate, who's a passenger on the plane? Yeah, he's dead. So that has its own set of problems that you have to deal with. In regards to okay, well, we've got to turn the morgue on, turn the fridge on and you've got to, you've got to. You know how do you get him out? Because you can't drive, no one can get in. You're gonna have to fly them. There's a whole bunch of things around that. So they're things you just had to learn to do and understand what to do, because there wasn't anyone else that could do it for you yeah, yeah, yeah, that's exactly right and yeah, I mean that that's, catherine, for you that's definitely bush policing.
Speaker 2:You know, on a whole, you, you had no resources out there. You were the resource, so you so you had to learn how to do it. I um, you know, I chipped later years and I actually said to the commander because I had trouble sending people out of bush people like Damo and I, we loved going bush, we loved the autonomy of it. It was busy at times but we loved it. And I said to the commander I said well. I said why don't you make a requirement that people they can relieve out there but they have to do at least six months before they go for Santa Conning, you know, at a bush station and he goes oh, you can't do that. I said well, why not? You say part of the thing is when you join the police is, are you willing to go everywhere? And everybody says yes, so and just give them the option. You know, and you know what was funny off later on.
Speaker 2:So when I left the police they then brought in. It was mandatory the commissioner would send you out bush before you got a promotion. So they were sending, they were making people go out, bush, instead of asking and making them a requirement to to like go for promotion. He was then sending people and I said, well, no, that's not going to work either, because people need to work around their family and all that sort of thing. Give them the option and they have to do it if they want to. You know, get promoted.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's, it's one of those things you, you came in at a time where, where they started bringing in, you know, ribbons for last place and things like that, it was all about making sure, making sure, making sure everyone was happy and can change, and uh, all those sorts of things, uh that's exactly right anyway. So what? What after? What happened after that? Where did you, where did you work?
Speaker 2:so when I'm done. Basically what happened was oh look, I won't go into too much, this is more my wife's story, but she, she got a cancer and so we had some time off, uh, while she dealt with that. And then when we came back we had some problems in the police department. Just, they basically wanted to kick her out of the police because of the damage the radiation had done and all that sort of thing. But yes, basically we had a bit of a fight with the police department, which we won, and she got fully confirmed, which was right. She was absolutely she was a very, very good officer and she still she was she's finished now, but she was, she was a very, very good police officer um, and basically then we separated, or basically broke up going through all that trauma, and then I went, I decided well, funnily enough, I'll go back and tell a bit of a story here.
Speaker 2:So one of the other stations I relieved in early on was Ramangini police station, which is in the middle of Arnhem Land, if you, if you know Northern Territory, it's in the Gulf. It's about 26 kilometres, I think, from Ramagini to the barge landing and, if you look, search for a place called Millingimby, an island just off the coast, that Ramagini, straight inland from there, about 26 kilometres, I got the. Well, basically, what happened was they had there was under the intervention, and they asked me I, they asked me the sergeant out there was going on leave for two or four weeks, I think, and they asked me this is in 2010, I think it was. And, um, they asked me. They said can you go out there and look after the station for you know, for while he's on leave? And I said yeah, yeah, I can do that. So I went out there and I met and I'll mention his name there Muhammad Abaka Ali is his name. He's a. He's a great guy. He's in the Western Australian Police now, so I won't tell too many stories, but he's still in the police.
Speaker 2:He was in the Northern Territory. Oh, I love the bloke he was. He was basically fresh out of the college well, fairly fresh out of the college as well and he was the second second man out there and I worked with him for a couple of weeks and had a great time. It was just fantastic. And I said at that stage they were actually building a $12 million police station there, because it was going to become a permanent station, not just a themis station.
Speaker 2:Under the intervention that was starting to happen. The plans were getting put in place when I was out there in 2010 and, funnily enough, I said to him at the time I said if I ever break up with my wife, I will put him for this station as a sergeant when it gets built. And lo and behold, two years later, the sergeant position the first actually substantial sergeant of Ramangini Police Station came up for grabs and I was out there relieving at the time and relieving Manning Green and a couple of other stations around it, just helping out, and I put in for the job and I got it. So I was the first one to take over a $12 million police station.
Speaker 1:Was it a better building than the one you'd been at? Oh the.
Speaker 2:FEMA stations, mate, they were just containers. You're living in shipping containers, that's it Fair enough. Yeah, so a bit more flash, definitely. But I worked for close to three years out there and look, a lot of people said to me at the time. They said you know, you're crazy. You know, taking over a new station. Usually when you take over a station, the sergeant before you has already got things rolling and all that sort of thing. But I had to create everything. Yeah, ammunition register, like they had it, but it was because police had been coming and going and chopper, yeah, there'd been no constant police, it was all over the shop. I remember the first station inspection before I moved into the new police station. Like when I got out there I actually got my ass dragged over the coals because it was in such a shit state. But it takes so long to get that stuff under control and I'd been out there for about two weeks at that stage Hardly fair work.
Speaker 1:Don't think it was quite, or flat, but anyway, typical police.
Speaker 2:But you know I got it, but it was a lot of work, it was a lot of work. You know I got it, but it was a lot of work, it was a lot of work. I yeah, I can't Basically look, put in perspective, my overtime bill a year, like so what the police used to pay me in overtime was around $50,000. So you can imagine how much, yeah, how much work I did out there and, look, I love the community I did, but I basically got a bit burnt out.
Speaker 1:You know, doing that for three years how many, how many coppers were at that station? Well, originally.
Speaker 2:When I first went out there, when it was under the intervention or themis, there was a lot of the time it was just me and one other person. If I was lucky, even my mum and dad had just retired at the time. I remember my senior sergeant sitting there going maybe we should just give them uniforms. So it looks like we've got more police out there I'm surprised they didn't go the cutout mode.
Speaker 1:You know like they used the comments, the shoplifter one. I don't know whether you've ever used to see the um, the police, the cutout police for life. So I've won in the shop. Say if you get caught yeah, yeah I think that was considered as well.
Speaker 2:But basically, once it became a full-time station, uh, or permanent police station, there was me as a sergeant and then I had two constables and one aboriginal community police officer.
Speaker 1:So there was a role for those, for those uh, three other officers, okay, and that's a fairly big station then yeah, it was a full full full, full man station, so to speak.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay, so you're going. Sorry, I mean it was, it was a busy station, but it was. It kind of had it high and lows, like you know. But you know what police is, like Full moon, it goes absolutely nuts and then you won't have anything for two weeks.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I do know that. All right. So you're three years there, you burn out. What happens then? Well, mate.
Speaker 2:So then Damo, the other ordinary cop he was at Borraloola and he sent him, well, first off. Damo, the other ordinary cop, he was at Boralula and he sent him, well, first off. I'll sit there. I applied for a cross-border team which was down Nala Springs and there was basically me and one other person going for the job. We were the top people for the job. She just beat me, nudged ahead of me and I kind of got a bit of the shits with that. There was some circumstances around why that happened. And and I kind of got a bit of the shits with that, there was some circumstances around why that happened and I wasn't overly impressed because I basically, I mean, I got Ramon Guinea. I wasn't even a substantive sergeant when I went for the job in Ramon Guinea, but I beat a sergeant for the job, basically because of my experience and you know. And then I looked at when I went for the cross-border team and basically everybody, even up to the superintendent in the cross-border team who was in charge of it, wanted me, um, and yeah, and I missed out. So I was kind of a bit cheesed off about that. And then Damo said well, why don't you come to Borraloola? I'm a Borraloola, you know we can get together, have a whole lot of fun. And so I thought, well, all right, I'll go to Borraloola.
Speaker 2:And I thought, well, I was already thinking about leaving the police at that stage, and I was nine years in at that stage and I thought, well, I know the policing, I was banging my head against a brick wall, being sergeant of a police station. I couldn't get the stuff that I needed done. I had this misconception that I could actually fix it if I got into politics and and anyway, so I then. So I applied for Borralalula and got it. And then I was. I only got to spend about a month there with damo. Amo got sent down to alice spring because they needed coppers down there. So which was probably a good thing in a way, because otherwise the drinking consumption would have gone up significantly if him and I'd been there I was gonna ask if there was a police club anywhere nearby, see, ramming gu.
Speaker 2:Guinea was a dry community so you couldn't drink out there. I mean, if you look at me back then I was probably just look, I was 80 kilos and I was solid muscle because all I did was eat well and train. That's all I did and do policing. So I was extremely fit. I was doing, you know, go Sydney for the, for the city, to surf runs, I was doing half marathons and all that sort of thing like, yeah, I was really super fit because you just couldn't drink out there. So um got to concentrate on my fitness and then I went to Borraloola and that changed. Um, I went to Borraloola and I can tell you Borraloola is probably one of the most volatile stations I ever worked in. I think at that stage in my career I had about one complaint a year In that one year in Borough of Lula, I got 10.
Speaker 1:So yeah, why is it so volatile and sort of explain. Can you explain a little bit what you mean by that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it's a very. It can really go crazy. You've got a lot of, I suppose, a lot of youth crime. The problem is you've got three different camps Mara Garawa, and there's a new sub, but there's another one I can't think of it off the top of my head and they're all different kind of tribes as well to a certain extent. So that causes a bit of conflict, I mean, yeah, and then you've got robinson river, which is just down the road. You've got dumajee, which is just over the border, you know, if you go down through the gulf. Um, so you used to get people from dumajee coming in good old doom and, yeah, anybody that's read the stalk the tall man. Is it the tall man the one that killed? Oh, the one that basically cameron dumajee died on palm island back in the?
Speaker 1:yeah it was? I actually think it was the 2000, was it? Yeah, yeah, so that was pretty, yeah, I just I just left, I think so 2003, 2004.
Speaker 2:that's right. And of course, I think he was originally from dumadji itself. I'm not entirely sure, but there was definitely some connection with the guy that died with Dumadji, so yeah, so there was a bit of I was going to say, funnily enough the copper that was involved and that actually spent time at Dumadji. Oh he, yeah, all right yeah, he, he did.
Speaker 1:He did a lot of country policing. I worked with him both in cairns and mount isaac and he got stomped on by a bull, almost died, trying to raise funds for the community. That's.
Speaker 2:That's another story yeah, I mean, I read the book. It was funny because it was a book written by what do you call it, I don't know. It wasn't an investigative journalist, it was, I don't know, it was a journalist of some sort. Anyway, and it was funny because I read it when I was out at Croker Island. I was sitting there going, geez, she's really taking a one-sided point of view in this. She obviously didn't like the police very much, and but when I was reading it, I'm going, ah, jesus, it's definitely swayed like there's no, I mean, that's always a problem with police, though, isn't it like they police are very quiet and tight when it comes to that sort of stuff? Because, yeah, they, they just rather let it kind of wash over.
Speaker 1:I remember being on a flight back from melbourne or sydney with him and leave it. Yeah, um, last year or the year before, no, it was last year. We were having a discussion and talking about how they're trying to get police to join and everyone's leaving. I work in recruitment now and I said the biggest problem with policing is that no one tells a good story. The only story you ever hear about police is when the shit has hit the fan, and only story you ever hear about police is when the shit has hit the fan and something's gone wrong and the police get blamed. I said the, the worst pr, even their pr people are bad at pr. At pr, they can't turn any story, they can't put anything good out. And I said that's, that is the biggest issue, knowing the, the, the negativity, and just it's like, oh well, we'll, just won't worry about it, we'll shut it down, and I think policing as a profession suffers from that and that negativity has a mental health impact on the people who are police. But that I will come back to.
Speaker 1:Okay, unfortunately, that's all we have time for for this episode of Behind the Thin Blue Line. I hope you're enjoying my conversation with Ben Schultz and telling us his story of how he got into the police. Join me next Tuesday for the next part of this episode and the next part of this discussion with Ben. Hope you have a good day and I'll chat to you then. Thank you for joining me on Behind the Thin Blue Line where I have conversations with current and former police officers and they get to tell their stories. I hope you've enjoyed that episode. In the next episode we'll again explore the human side of policing through more conversations with police officers from around the world. Please make sure you subscribe to the podcast so you never miss an episode. Lastly, if you're a current or former police officer, I would love to chat to you about your experiences or, if you're feeling dangerous, tell your stories on my podcast. Please get in contact by my email, which is whisperintheshadowspodcast at gmailcom. I look forward to you joining me next week.
