Whisper in the Shadows
Welcome to ‘Whispers in the Shadows’, your gateway into the nerve-wracking work of undercover policing. The true stories of a real-life undercover cop. I’m Michael Bates, an ex-undercover police officer, and this was my reality for over two years. If your fascinated by the truth that lies beneath crime shows, if you hunger for the real-life stories that leap beyond the boundaries of fiction, ‘Whispers in the Shadows’ is here to satisfy your curiosity. From infiltrating drug syndicates to living a double life, every episode uncovers a thrilling true story that pitted me against the face of danger. Don’t miss out on the chance to step into my shoes and experience what it takes to walk the thin line between law and crime. Subscribe to ‘Whispers in the Shadows’ and join me, as we delve into the gritty world of undercover policing.
Whisper in the Shadows
Behind the Thin Blue Line, a Conversation - Episode 6 with Ben Schultz - Part 3
What happens when the badge comes off but the hypervigilance remains? Join Jason Somerville and guest Ben Schultz as they recount their personal journeys from the high-stakes world of law enforcement to the unpredictable terrain of civilian life. Ben opens up about the challenges that come with relinquishing the authority inherent in police work, and how this loss often manifests as frustration and impatience in everyday situations. Together, they tackle the emotional complexities of their transitions, shedding light on the lasting impact of their former roles on their current lives.
Transitioning to a new career is no small feat, especially when your previous job involved reading people and solving crimes. Ben delves into how his detective skills have seamlessly transferred to the corporate world and political campaigns, making him an asset in recruitment and candidate assessment. With engaging anecdotes, he illustrates the practical applications of investigative work and psychological profiling in these new arenas, proving that the expertise gained from years on the force remains invaluable.
Police clubs play a critical role in maintaining officer well-being, offering a sanctuary where stress and trauma can be shared among understanding peers. Reflecting on their experiences in various locations, Jason and Ben underscore the importance of these communal spaces for mental health. From the intense stress encountered in roles like bush policing to the coping mechanisms that helped manage it, they discuss the resilience and self-awareness necessary to navigate such demanding careers. Whether you're a former officer or simply curious about the human side of policing, this episode promises heartfelt stories and crucial insights into life beyond the thin blue line.
Two Ordinary Cops Podcast can be found here - https://twoordinarycops.com/
Please be sure to Subscribe to and Follow the Podcast so you never miss an Episode and if you like what you are hearing then please "Like" the episode and podcast on your favourite podcast app.
If you would like to be involved in a "Whisper In The Shadows" Podcast through talking about your experiences as an current or former Police/Law Enforcement Officer or tell your stories then I'd love to hear from you.
I can be contacted on my socials below -
Email - whisperintheshadowspodcast@gmail.com
Instagram - @whisperintheshadowspodcast
Facebook - Whisper in the Shadows Podcast Page
Welcome to Behind the Thin Blue Line, a Whisper in the Shadows podcast. In each city, in every neighbourhood, on every street they stand tall, those in blue guardians of our community, our protectors. But who are they really? Behind the Thin Blue Line is the podcast that takes you behind the badge, beyond the headlines, and into the hearts of those who serve and protect. We're here to break down barriers and to tear down the walls of misunderstanding. We're here to listen to their stories, their triumphs, their fears.
Speaker 1:Ever wonder what it's like serving undercover, or what's the real-life impact of policing, or how they cope with trauma? Listen as we step into the shoes of those who walk the thin blue line. You have heard my true stories of what it's really like to be an undercover cop. I want to give a voice to all those living amongst us, unseen and unnoticed, who have put their life on the line being a police officer, hopefully to give you, the listener, a glint into something you will likely never get to experience Uncover the complex world of law enforcement and the raw human experiences behind the badge. Join me Jason Somerville, your host and a former police officer myself, as we navigate through these stories on Behind the Thin Blue Line. Let's go and meet our next guest. Welcome back to part three of my conversation with Ben Schultz. Let's jump right back in and find out where we're at. I've been out for 20 years and it's the hypervigilance and you're right, you heighten sense of I don't want to say paranoia, but it could almost be paranoia as well to a certain extent.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Have you found that affect other things? So with me the example is road rage, stupid people, oh yeah, yeah, people don't indicate mate.
Speaker 2:That sends me in an absolute rage. Well, we're not Melbourne.
Speaker 1:It shouldn't be that bad. But and look, the other thing is, I guess one of the big things I struggle with is and I've spoken about this a couple of times um, so people either do or don't respect the job. But you don't have to explain yourself to people as to to what your job is or what you do, et cetera. When you go to someone. You go to someone and you say I need you to do this and by virtue of the fact that you're a police officer, that has a certain gravitas, and people don't go. Some people do go. What do you mean? You just arrest them, and I guess the biggest issue I have is I'm an expert in my field.
Speaker 1:Now, yeah, you know, I know my shit, but I still have people who go. You don't know what you're talking about, and that that then leads to me being aggressive, yeah, and me blowing my top, yeah, and that sort of thing. And you can correlate the two between I've gone from this situation where I could do that. I've left. Now People have the same disrespect as they probably did when I was a police officer, but I can't do anything about it, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's exactly right, there's no outlet for it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, that's exactly right. Like I still remember, one of my sayings was was the fact that you know you're talking to somebody down the street and it's not really serious and you're trying to get them to go their separate ways and I'll sit there and go. Look, you've got two choices. Basically, you, you get off, get on your bike and go home, or I'll take you to the cells and they sit there and go. Oh, no, I'd rather I said no. No, this isn't a negotiation. You, you've got two choices. If you don't make a choice up in the next 30 seconds, I'm going to make it for you and you won't like my choice.
Speaker 1:So yeah, and it's funny because in the corporate world there's this thing about oh, you have to bring people along with you, you have to sell your idea, you have to sell your, your um, you know changes and change management and all that sort of stuff, um, and you go, okay, so it's been 12 months trying to change things. When do you get to the point where you just go, hey, stupid, this is, this is what's happening, let's do it. That's right. Yeah, yeah, exactly, yeah, yeah. But there's none of that. There's this whole oh no, no, you've got to keep trying to convince people, blah, blah, blah, blah. And that's one thing I've struggled with, because I've spent so long in my formative years going okay, you have a choice, you have a choice, you have a choice, you have a choice. No, fucking choice You're coming with me Exactly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, that's exactly right. Yeah, and it is frustrating trying to deal with, like some people and you're just sitting there going, just make a choice. Like you know, we've got to move on here. We can't, you know. You imagine if police actually went to an incident and they were sitting there umming and ahhing for the next month on how they're going to handle it. Nothing could ever get done.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, you're right. How do you find that in politics? Sorry, how do you find that in politics?
Speaker 2:Well, mate, so I'm helping out on a campaign at the moment and it is so dealing, you're dealing with a lot of egos. When it comes to politics, you know, everybody wants to get their name and face recognized for helping out on a campaign and all that sort of stuff. Um and and on the campaign manager, like for this particular one and you, you've got to. Basically, and unfortunately, like I said, it's definitely not a will or machine. They couldn't organize, as in even the whole party as a structure, they couldn't organize anything and anyway. So I'm trying to bring them into. It's more like it's a police style of doing things.
Speaker 2:So, people in the police, they have jobs. We have like a sergeant, he knows what's going on and he's the one that directs the troops. So, um and don't, and those troops don't step out their, their lanes, so to speak, when they're doing their tasks. They do it and they come back to the sergeant and then you know, and then it goes back and forth. Problem is, you've got to try and bring people into that way of thinking and for people that's never had that way of thinking or understand the structure of the police force, um, it's, it's very hard to do.
Speaker 2:However, some people might disagree, going well, you shouldn't be doing it like the police, and I said but the police is very efficient when it comes to getting jobs done and getting decisions exactly, yep and, and there's a hierarchy. So look it's. It's definitely a task, but I'm, I'm getting there, getting there, I'm slowly getting people to understand the way, my method, because, even to a certain extent, they say, oh, you're too laid back. I said but the thing is, you've got to be watching over everything. I can't get involved in things because if I don't I'll lose sight of what's happening off to the left of me or the right to me. My job is to sit there and overlook everybody. So it's yeah, but I mean, you know it's a learning curve, let's put it that way.
Speaker 1:Fair enough. I guess that brings me to another point. So when police leave the police, hang on. Let me rephrase that when people leave the police, they don't know what to do, they don't know where to go, they don't know what sort of jobs they could be looking at. One of the things that I found with mine so a people job, which I'm doing in recruitment, but also a heavy process role where you have steps you have to follow. When you do those steps, a, b, b or C happens and you can follow through. I'm a firm believer that that's the sort of jobs probably people leaving the police should start to look at, because that's what their life has been for 5, 10, 15, 25 years or whatever it is. What are your thoughts around that?
Speaker 2:yeah, mate, I. So when I actually left the police and probably the easiest way to touch on that is is the fact I applied for a lot of jobs, and it was a lot of jobs, especially in the way of running teams I I wouldn't ever say, and I'll even say now, I wouldn't, I'm not, I'm not the best leader in the world, I'm not the, you know, the best person in charge. However, I've had a lot of experience doing it and I've learned every step of the way on how to be better at what I do. Um, and when you look at and you'll probably agree with me here when you look at some of the leaders around the place at the moment, you're going holy shit, yeah, true, and um, so I applied for a lot of jobs, um, that basically had that role and stuff that I could almost do in my sleep, because I mean, if you look at every police officer, and especially the ones that have been in really significant stuff, like you know, you were undercover.
Speaker 2:I ran a station you know out in Arnhem Land for three years and I prosecuted as well, and I also led them through two cyclones, you know. So I was a pastor, management as well and all this sort of stuff. So I applied for a lot of these jobs and you don't even get a look in and I'm going. You look at the people that get it and you go. I'm a hundred times more experienced than that. But also my problem, I don't have those ticks behind my name to say that I can do this, even though I have done it, if you know what I mean. So you know I've got basically a diploma in public safety which I got through the police and I've done my detective's training and all that sort of stuff. I've got all this training I've done. But you know they like the letters or the ticks after in the boxes for the degrees and all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 1:Here's something that and this is probably another podcast episode but it's very hard because when you apply for a job in the police, you have to write it in a certain way. Yes, that's correct. Yeah, when you apply for a job in the real world, you have to write it in a completely different way, and people don't understand. They take their look at their police history and they go oh, I've been a police officer, what else have I done? And they don't look at the little things, whereas you can take some of the things. So, for example, I became a tour leader.
Speaker 1:Now I relied on the fact that I had to deal with stressful situations. I had to deal with situations that required you to think quickly. I had to deal with situations with multiple people, organize multiple things if something was happening, run multiple things, that sort of stuff. So I took instances of each of those things to say here's where I could be a good tour leader because I've got this experience. Yeah, on these little things, most people look at the policing and go I've been a police officer. How do I break that down?
Speaker 1:And and again, this is probably another episode thing, but I think one of the things you need to do is write down all the things that you've done, yeah, and then go okay, well, I could use that, or I could use that. The other thing I wanted to ask you is when you left, did you have an idea of what you were other than going into politics? Yeah, did you have an idea of what you wanted to do? Or you just thought, oh, I'll do investigating roles or I'll do government roles, because that's what everyone says I should do?
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh, not so much. I loved investigating. I loved working as a detective Like it was some of the highlights of my career. I really love. I love reading people and I love figuring out why they do what they do. And, to be completely honest, when I left, if I knew what I knew now, I would have taken that year's leave without pay. Honest, when I left, if I knew what I knew now, I would have taken that years leave without pay and I would have actually gone over to the States and tried to talk to the behavioral science unit of the FBI. Yep, because I think they are just incredible what they do. It's absolutely amazing. If anybody's ever watched mind hunter or read the book, it is just absolutely mind-blowing. And I love the psychology.
Speaker 2:One of my talents, I suppose, or natural abilities, is to read people and judge. You know what they're going to do or why they're doing it, and so on and so forth. And I just thought, wow, that would have look, I would have been. You know, I would have been a duck on the pond, I would have been happy. Duck on the pond, I would have been happy, as happy as anything doing that. Um, so yeah, and so I wanted to try and do investigative roles and I actually applied, even in the army, to investigate incidents, you know, between other troops and stuff like that, and they were out of all the ones I applied for they were the only ones that called me back and the only reason they didn't take me was because the last three years I hadn't been in a detective role. I'd been at Bush and they said they wanted somebody that had been working as a detective within the last three years. And yeah, which is which is? I think I like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but it's interesting you talk about the reading people and that sort of stuff, because I use a lot of that when I interview candidates. Yeah, when I'm speaking to candidates and that sort of thing, I use a lot of those skills. Now, I didn't have them before I joined. Whether they were inherent or not is another, another, another issue. Yeah, but I learned how to do that. I remember, uh, I remember having a sergeant when I was really early in my career who said to me you're going to see someone and you're going to say there's something wrong here, yeah, and 95% of the time you're going to be right, yeah, yeah, there is something wrong, yeah, um, and so I use that now, that learned ability in recruitment. Now, who would have thought that you could use your police stuff in recruitment? Yeah, that's right, exactly. And, as I keep saying, I interview people, I'm just not allowed to use a phone book anymore.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we never got the joy of phone books either, um, but the world of leasing had changed by the time we joined um. So I'll tell you a funny one there, and this is this is a story when I was back training um, you know people constable straight out of the college and um, anyway, I've been training this guy for a couple of months and we've gone to oh look, it was a, it was, it was a domestic incident that morning. I mean, we've been to thousands of jobs and it was a domestic incident and it was funny because, um, the woman was absolutely going apeshit. The male was so calm, but he was too calm, if you know what I mean. Yeah, and anyway she's. So she looked like the offender, she looked like she was just going off her tree and all that sort of thing. It wasn't physical and all that sort of stuff. And anyway, I basically I said, nah, here's the one. And so we.
Speaker 2:One thing we always did in the police, and I'll I'll talk on this after I finish this incident we're at the police club. Um, just after, like we, when we finish shift most of the time, we went out police cut for one or two beers, sometimes 100, um, and we, um, I was sitting there and my, my junior officer. He turned to me and he goes how do you know? And I said well, what do you mean? How do I know? And he goes I have been to thousands of incidents with you. And he said, basically on arrival, you know who the offender is, you know who the victim is and you know who the witnesses are. You can identify them almost immediately. And he said, yeah, and he said today I still haven't seen you get it wrong. Why, how do you do it? And I said I don't know how I do it.
Speaker 2:And I said but I explained to him, like that incident, that domestic we'd gone to, because that obviously twigged him. I said you, usually the one that screams and points fingers, they're the usually the offender, because you know they're the aggressive people, the ones that go off. They always point the finger at somebody else to try and take the focus off them. But I said in that instant morning you, you look, he was too calm. If, because domestics are very emotional, people get emotional, he was. He should have had a better emotional response to that incident, but he didn't and he was acting because he was trying to act calm, so she would look guilty. Um, yeah, so it was, but I never realized I had that ability until he kind of pointed that out, because I'd just been doing it. You know what I mean. Like you know you, it was a skill that I didn't realize I'd learned, um, you know, from being in the police, until he, he kind of pointed it out and and you're right, and that's that's, I guess, what I'm getting at.
Speaker 1:When people apply for jobs, they have these skills that they don't know that they have, and that's one of the things that I think is important. Um, anyway, look, I'll move on. Yeah, um, what? What's a common myth you think that people have about being a copper?
Speaker 2:um, I was gonna say we drink too much, but that's definitely true. Yeah, I'm Nick. Oh, I don't really know. I've never really thought about it. Have you heard of any yourself?
Speaker 1:I guess you know the things like everyone eats donuts.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, well, yeah, that's true, yeah, I suppose. Yeah, no, I mean the problem is donuts. We didn't really have them up in the territory. Yeah, I think we've had them in Australia. You know, I actually once said to Damo in one of our podcast episodes he said he was walking down the street, you know, for lunch, and I said are you going to get donuts? He goes, no, he said donuts is more like an American cop thing and he said and besides the choice of donuts in Tennant Creek, he's very sparse.
Speaker 2:But like I just want to touch on something, just something I touched on before. We were very big believers in the police club or the police clubs up in the Northern Territory and I know they kind of died out in other police forces earlier on, um, but a lot of them stuck around um I, when I was specifically shift sergeant in catherine, I would almost make it mandatory that people come over the police club I don't care if they drink water, um, at the end of every shift for at least half an hour. But because my whole belief and I got taught by Bob Rennie, one of the real senior officers. You know, he was the first one we met when we went up to the police club in Darwin there and it's the thing of offload here at the police club and don't take it home. And you're also talking to people that understand what you're going through. So if you've had a traumatic incident, then we'll spend longer here, because it's easier to talk to people that understand what you're what you're saying.
Speaker 2:Um, yep and dame and I talk about this a bit and taking nothing away from psychologists and all that sort of thing but I've always found talking to like-minded people who have actually done the job is far more beneficial for me than talking to somebody that you know, yeah, they studied psychology and all that sort of thing, but they've never lived it and yeah, so that was. I loved the police clubs for that reason and you know, obviously you know I'm reasonably saying I'd like to think so I've still got. You know my little demons and all that sort of stuff, but I can tell you I spent a lot of time in that police club, yep, so it's interesting, the you know, the only police club I ever, I suppose.
Speaker 1:When I was in the city I used to go to the one in Brisbane but that got knocked down. But in Mount Isa that was a big one, mount Isa, the police club there, partly because it was downstairs in the barracks, which was both good and bad if you had a 6 am start on a Saturday morning, but good if you didn't. What do you think the most difficult part about being a copper is?
Speaker 2:I think, especially for us, um trying to manage, um, differentiating between the job and your home life, um, uh, like, yeah, and damo said it's perfect. He said like because and any police officer know this well when you're on duty, you're sitting at a level that most people don't sit at because you've got to be really tuned in with what's happening around you and so you're really attentive about what's going on, like you're looking for crime and looking for danger and all that sort of stuff. But when you come home, it's kind of like you've drained your batteries and you're like a mobile phone on a charger. Um, so one of the difficulties was definitely managing your home life, because you know, like, dame, I said you get home and you know your wife goes oh, do you want to go into this? Yeah, maybe, like you know, oh, you know how would you shift? Yeah, it was good. Um, you know, and he goes, you're just sitting there because you don't.
Speaker 2:All you, all you want to do is try and build your battery back up before you go and do it again, and I think that was probably one of the hardest things to learn. I mean, I think what burnt me out in the end? I did bush policing for four years and I didn't. It didn't matter when you're home, you're getting called out, you know. So I lived those jobs and, preceding that, I was working in the family and domestic violence unit and I was doing 14 hour days. I I had my, I could write my own overtime. Um, it was that busy and that was when I was in Catherine and it does take a lot out of you, I guess.
Speaker 1:And um, what do you think then? With those sorts of things, what's the most surprising thing you've learned about yourself?
Speaker 2:Probably how resilient I really was, like I remember. So in the I'll go back to the family and domestic violence unit when we were working there we used to get psych assessed, I think every three months, because it's fairly stressful. You know you're dealing with emotional stuff all the time and you know we're completely fine. And one of the questionnaires the psychologists would get to fill out was do you ever feel like not coming in in the morning, like coming to work in the morning? And I go no, always. It didn't matter whether I spent 18 hours and only got a quarter of the stuff done the day before that I really wanted to get done. I would still jump up the next day and go, yeah, I'm going to get it done today. And I did that day in and day out for basically five years nonstop. And it was probably four years Because I remember and I was doing it when I went out and took over the station around McGinney I was just going absolutely hammer and tongs like getting up and yeah, you still got a pile of paperwork next to and you just keep on going hard.
Speaker 2:And then, out of the blue, I woke up one morning because I was always in there at seven, even though I was like I started at eight and I woke up one morning and I'm just gone. I don't have to go until late. Why bother? And only because I'd filled out that questionnaire. It clicked and I've gone. That's it. It's finally broken me. So that was yeah. Sorry, that was a learning curve.
Speaker 1:And I was just going to go on with that to say you were talking about. You know, you were out and you didn't get that buzz and that sort of thing. When you realized, was it also part of that as well? You wake out and you didn't get that buzz and that sort of thing. When you realised, Was it also part of that as well, that you wake up and you go. I don't really want to do this. Why am I doing this?
Speaker 2:Yeah, Basically, I love the job itself, but I remember the last year, so, when I was in Borough Law that was absolutely flat out and this had already happened I was rocking. I basically lived on the station ground, so I'd rock in at eight on the dot and, um, you know, and I'd leave it for you. Get up at seven, 55. Yeah, that's right, exactly. Yeah, basically roll out of bed and walk into the police station, um, but uh, and I still remember, I think back I was, I was considered if, if I look back on me back then I was, I was definitely to work on the verge of breaking down. Um, I would. Luckily, I'd actually learned how to meditate and I used to go home at lunch and lie down on my bed for half an hour and meditate so I could get through the afternoon shift. So that's, that's how and it was one of those things.
Speaker 2:I was also the two I see there, so I'd step down from being a sergeant, but I was basically in charge of the troops and then the sergeant was in charge of all of us. So I would check the files. But I still remember sitting there thinking if we got an arrest, the troops would turn to me and go basically look at me and go, what are we doing? And I'd go, okay, you do this, you do this, you do this, you do this. Basically, if it's an overtime shift we had to watch them overnight I'll do the last um shift of watching them before they get on the plane to fly to darwin, if they're remaining custody. Uh, that way, I checked the file because I was a prosecutor and I remember at one stage we got this arrest and I knew it was coming because they were going to turn to me once again. You know what, what are we, what are our jobs? And I just certainly want to go. I wish somebody else could do this.
Speaker 2:You know, I was tired, and it wasn't, it wasn't that I wasn't capable, I just I was just tired of doing it. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, so, yeah, do you meditate now? Yeah, sometimes, yeah, yeah, yeah, do you find it helpful? Uh, yeah, definitely, if I mean, I don't really need it that much at the moment. But especially, I was working in the council office and you know, and um, and it was pretty busy at times and I had a lot of other stuff going on as well. There was one stage I had three jobs on the go. Um, and there was sometimes there where I'd actually sit there and go. No, I just need to calm the mind for a little bit. Um, I used to do it with beer, but I don't do it with beer as much anymore.
Speaker 1:Fair enough. So I guess there are people listening to this that might not be in the police and or might think they want to join the police. What advice do you have for someone? Firstly, what advice do you have for someone who wants to be a police officer? And secondly, what do you think is the most crucial trait someone needs to be a police officer? We'll go with the trait first what do you think is the most crucial trait someone needs to have to be a police officer?
Speaker 2:To be a police officer, I think you have to be a certain personality, or you're better. If you're a certain personality, you need to be able to handle confrontation, um, because confrontation happens all the time. Um, I I myself personally don't like confrontation that much, but I mean, I've always been involved in it because it's just the way my life has run. I've always put myself in roles where it is like that and I've always, like I said, I've always stood up for the underdog. So it's um, you know, that's, that's just the person that I am. But because I know some people weren't over like, I work with some people that weren't overly confrontational, and it was. You had to be, you had to walk in. You have to talk to these people. You know if, if they're a rape victim, you have to talk to them. You need to get this information out of them. You, you can't be shy about doing that, um, and and you've got to you've also got to be considerate and, you know um compassionate when you're doing it as well, um, but you have to face these things as a police officer. So, yeah, that's probably one of the main things I would say You've got to be able to handle confrontation and you've got to be able to do it. Once you do it for a while, it will become second nature.
Speaker 2:If you look at my personality because they did personality tests in the police and I was I'm an influential sort of person, um, but it was funny when they were actually doing it and then they did some role plays about situations and the sergeant who'd known me for a very long time and he said, well, he said none of you actually sit in the dominant um thing. But he said, schultz, I want you to act in the dominant thing. He said this said Schultz, I want you to act in the dominant thing. He said this isn't your personality, but I've seen you do it a hundred times through your career. Because you were a sergeant, you had to make sure you laid down the law and all that sort of stuff, and I never really kind of realized or thought about it that way.
Speaker 2:So I think confrontation is definitely the main one For people wanting to join the police. Do it. It was the best thing I ever did in my life. It, you know, even though, like you know, I mean I've talked about some you know shit things and all that about coming out after and all that, but I tell you what I have got stories till the end of half and beyond it is. It was some of the best fun I had in my life. Um, you know, we got paid to do it, I concur sorry I go.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, no, that's, that's okay. I was just gonna say and that's probably, that was probably the glitch, the um. We're having some internet issues again, um, but people say to me oh you've, but you you went through and you're out, so you probably wouldn't recommend. It's like no, I'll never say no to someone. Don't join. It'll be join, but be aware of the beast that policing is, be aware of the impact it's going to have on you.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, definitely. Um, I said you've got to understand you have to be involved. It's a lifestyle. Policing is not a job, it's a lifestyle. You've got to do it for the right reasons and you've got to give it 100% because if you don't, you'll fall behind very quickly and you'll probably become even more traumatized. I think by the end it and the other the other important thing for anybody wanting to join you are not going to save the world. You will save. Be happy with saving those few that you can save and help. Don't go in there thinking you're going to change the world, because it just won't happen yeah, very true.
Speaker 1:Um and uh, talking about embracing the lifestyle, if you're married, probably get divorced before you get one.
Speaker 2:I can definitely vouch for that mate.
Speaker 1:All right, look what I might do. We've spoken about a lot of things and I just want to do you want to give another plug for your and Damo's podcast and where people can find it? Yeah, mate.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So basically, damo and I I think we started about the same time and it's called Two Ordinary Cops. The reason we call ourselves ordinary? Because we're nothing out of the normal policing. You know, we tell our stories and all that sort of thing, but we're nothing special. We were cops like the men and women out there today doing the job, um, and there's there's far better cops than what we were. There's far better leaders than what we were, and that's why we called ourselves ordinary, because we never really wanted to talk up. You know we didn't. We don't think we're anything special, we just did the job and we loved the job.
Speaker 2:Um, and we love the funny stories, um, because people love the funny stories. So if you want to listen to, we've got everything on there from we talk about ptsd, uh, we talk about leadership, uh. We talk about, um, funny stories. Uh, they're one of the most popular ones and there are some funny ones, like that one I told earlier. Um, uh, we, yeah, we talk about specialist roles, what it's like moving from a detective um, you know, in and out of detectives and playing clothes and and back into, back into, um, you know, uh, frontline policing, um, yeah, and we talk about the college as well, what it's like going through the college.
Speaker 2:So if you want to join the police force, have a listen to our first episode, because it runs through what the college life is like and what our experiences were, and then the next episode is once we just got out on the road. So we talk about some of the horrific incidents we've been to. We talk about our worst jobs, which was very difficult for both of us to talk about. They're the ones that haunt us today. So if you really want to get a good understanding, then have a listen to Two Ordinary Cops you can. If you search Two Ordinary Cops just on the internet, it's twoordinarycopscom and that would lead you to the website. Otherwise, you can go on our Facebook page. If you look up Two Ordinary Cops, we're there. If you want to email us, it's contactus at twoordinarycopscom.
Speaker 1:So yeah, and my pod role also has a link to the podcast on both Spotify and the Apple one, whatever it is. Yeah, Apple iTunes I'm subscribed to you guys so people can find it there. Awesome, yeah, something like that, and there will be a link in the bottom as well. Alright, look what I might do before we finish up one of the things hopefully I'm going to get Damo on in the next couple of weeks as well to have a chat to him to tell some stories about you, yep and I should have told more about him.
Speaker 1:I'll miss the boat you didn't think of that, did you? You know, um, what I'll do is I'll leave the last comment to you, okay um, look in.
Speaker 2:In saying that I was, I was just going to touch on it something we spoke about off air I think it was when we um, before we started the recording and um, basically us doing this podcast. Uh, you reached out because you saw us on the thin blue line um, you know, and said you know, would you be happy about getting on? And then I spoke to you on the phone I, we talk about the thin blue line. Yes, it is a thin blue line, but it's bloody strong.
Speaker 2:You know, it doesn't matter what jurisdiction you come from, it doesn't matter which country you come from. You will understand and you've got a camaraderie that never goes away. So, if you want to join the police, that that's what it is. It's a lifestyle and you know you've got comrades, so to speak, that um, and they will stick up for you. We always used to sit there and there was one cop at one stage and, uh, he's sitting there and go. Yeah, he might be a retard, but he's our retard, you know what I mean. He's one of us and, um, and we'll always stick up for him it really is like a big family.
Speaker 1:It's like when everyone says, oh, you know, I'm gonna get you. It's like, well, yeah, but what about my 10 000 brothers and sisters that are behind me? You know, know what I mean.
Speaker 2:That's exactly right. Yeah, what is that? Bob Rennie says it's a long blue arm.
Speaker 1:It is. It is and it really is a worthwhile. I think from an altruistic point of view it's a worthwhile calling and it's a job that you can get immense pride and feeling of doing something good. It has its shit moments and that sort of thing, but you know. All right, look, I will leave it there.
Speaker 1:Sheltzie, thanks for coming on, and to everyone else, thank you for listening to Behind the Thin Blue Line. Look, if you're a current or past police officer and you'd like to tell your story or talk about what you do and what you've done, then please email me at whisperintheshadowspodcast at gmailcom. I will catch you next time, hopefully with Shelty's other half, damo. Thank you and goodbye, see ya. Thank you for joining me on Behind the Thin Blue Line, where I have conversations with current and former police officers and they get to tell their stories. I hope you've enjoyed that episode. In the next episode we'll again explore the human side of policing through more conversations with police officers from around the world. Please make sure you subscribe to the podcast so you never miss an episode. Lastly, if you're a current or former police officer, I would love to chat to you about your experiences or, if you're feeling dangerous, tell your stories on my podcast. Please get in contact by my email, which is whisperintheshadowspodcast at gmailcom. I look forward to you joining me next week.
